Your new split EP is out today on Asian Man Records and Kill Rock Stars. How did the idea to do a split together come about?

Lizzie: I was recording my full-length album back in March this year and I was high off the endorphins of recording so I texted Bailey pretty soon after I was done. I was like, “What if we co-wrote a song together?” Then you were like, “What if we did a split single on Asian Man and Kill Rock Stars?” and I was like, “That is awesome! Let’s do it!” One thing led to another and instead of a split single now we’re doing a split EP. I was like, “How many songs do you have? How many songs should we do?” I don’t know if I’m forgetting anything, Bailey?

Bailey: No, I feel like that’s exactly how it went down.

Lizzie: There's been increasing caps-lock in texts like we’re yelling at each other. [laughs]

Bailey: I feel like Kill Rock Stars have been really into collaboration and stuff too so the second you were like, “Let's do a split song”, it was perfect. I feel like it’s perfect because it’s two niche 90s labels that people love and it just makes so much sense. Split EPs are so much fun because I feel like Lizzie and I exist - and same with both labels - in similar but different spaces. It’s been so fun doing it together.

Lizzie: Both labels were so supportive of it and it was just so easy to do. I think maybe I didn’t think about a split immediately because I was like, “There’s no way they’re going to let us do that”. [laughs] I just thought it was impossible or something.

Bailey: We had to set up a call and Lizzie and I were texting like, “Oh my god, it’s like our parents are meeting!”

Lizzie: We had to set up a call with Mike Park and Slim to talk. Bailey and I were sitting on the call texting on the side like, “Oh my god, our dads are talking!”

[laughter]

Lizzie: It was so cute! I think Bailey and I had really been connecting over music. I guess how it started was that I invited you to a songwriting workshop I was doing, right?

Bailey: Yeah! That’s how so much stuff started for me. I wrote my whole first EP because of that songwriting workshop. [laughs]

Lizzie: That’s awesome! Bailey’s EP rules, …But It’s a Dry Heat . Did that come out this year? It feels like so long ago now.

Bailey: Yeah, it came out a few months ago.

Lizzie: That EP is incredible and I’m super excited to have a release with Bailey.

Bailey: It felt like a long time coming just through all of our songwriting stuff together. I feel like it only makes sense to manifest as something we do together. We’ve been big supporters of each other so it’s really fun to be putting all of our efforts into the same exact thing. It feels really natural.

Lizzie: We’re also both like once we know what we wanna do we just do it really fast. We’re like, “Let’s get this out! We have a whole plan!” [laughs] Obviously, my full-length isn’t out yet but let’s put out the split right now.

Are you still interested in co-writing a song or songs together?

Lizzie: I think that’s something that I want to do generally. Now that I’ve written a few of my own songs, I am getting more interested in more collaborations. Bailey, the offer’s still on the table if you want to work together. [laughs]

Bailey: Yeah! I feel like we work so well together and this was such a fun process. I definitely think that we’ll continue to do things like writing and touring. I think this is the first of many things that we’ll probably continue to do together in addition to supporting each other’s music just because it’s fun to work with your friends.

Lizzie: Yeah! I was telling Em about that just before you hopped on. She was talking about the art for the split and I was like, “Oh yeah, our friend Lucy from Dog Party did that!” I said exactly, “It’s cool to do stuff with your friends and have them be a part of it”.

Bailey: It’s such a stereotypical thing, but I think in music people can get jealous easily or it can be easy to start comparing yourself to other people. I feel like it’s so fun to just do stuff with your friends and to be proud of your friends’ successes and for friends to lift each other up and take each other with them. It feels really fun doing stuff together and being in different spaces and having different advantages and pulling different friends in and everything being a team effort.

You get better art out of collaboration.

Bailey: Yeah, it’s fun to just all support each other and remember you’re all working towards the same goal. We’re all going to win together.

Lizzie: Even having this opportunity to put a release out with Bailey is great. The songs that I have on there I wrote really quickly. Those songs did not exist before we talked about the split and I was like, “I should come up with some songs”. Would they have come out the way that they did if we didn’t talk about a split? I feel like even if they did come out they’d be different because I’d maybe overthink it or spend extra time on it which has advantages and disadvantages. But for the split and for most music I put out, it’s always about a time and a place like, “This is where I am in that moment and so here’s a snapshot of that”. That’s what I thought was interesting about the recording process for my songs on the split. We did it in three days and didn’t overthink it. I think there are probably some flaws in it but I feel like it adds to the songs.

Bailey: I think that’s the fun of co-writing or doing something with somebody else. For me, it’s almost like a certain accountability. I think you can workshop things to death. We’re working together to push this stuff so we’re working on the same timeline and I was also sharing stuff with you the whole time. It was nice having this outside voice always chiming in on things and hearing demos with somebody every step of the way because that’s not usually a part of my process unless I’m recording stuff. It was fun doing that with you and having you involved in the creation. We both heard the really, really raw demos from the beginning.

Lizzie: I was like, “Check out this song on acoustic guitar!” and it was just me in my room. [laughs] Bailey has heard all the songs from their infancy.

Bailey: And vice versa. It’s fun inviting somebody else into your process.

Lizzie: Just to reiterate what you said about being able to do that as early as the songwriting workshops we were doing, I remember when we started those you were like, “I don’t know if I’m ready to share these”. That’s ok, it’s totally you can share if you want to or not. They don’t have to be perfect and I think that was the benefit of those workshops, sort of getting out of your head a little bit. Instead of being like, “Oh this isn’t right yet”, everyone is just sharing the process.

How would you each describe your songwriting process?

Bailey: I don’t totally know how to answer because mine feels a little chaotic and it feels different at different times. Sometimes I try to be really good about making demos so I have stuff to pick from and work on. Lately, I’ve been workshopping a lot of stuff in the studio where I’ll start with nuggets of ideas and then one of my collaborators - Eddie who records and produces all my stuff - will come in with an idea and we’ll record it one way and then we’ll record it another way and then we’ll mess with stuff which has been a fun new part of the process that I’m not usually used to.

Lizzie: I guess for me, right now it’s kind of on hold. I feel like it’s hard to write songs when you’re about to release songs, I’m not thinking of any songs at all really. [laughs] One thing I’ve started doing over the pandemic - and that’s sort of how the self-titled EP came to be and the full-length and even this split - is just recording every little idea that comes to mind on my voice memos. So even if it’s just humming a little tune or a really stupid lyric or whatever, it can be any sort of musical piece, I’ll record it on the voice memos on my phone and noodle on that for a bit. Sometimes I’ll get an idea where I’m in the shower or parked somewhere and I’m like, “I’m going to record this idea!” It’ll just sit there for a while until I have time to get to it.

As an example, when I wrote “Decomposing” I was literally putting leaves in the compost bin and I was inspired by the sun shining out on me and the leaves and thinking about how, “Oh my god, this dead stuff is going to make new stuff in a few months”. I started humming what would become the chorus and that sat in my voice memos for a few months and then I started putting pieces together. I wrote the bridge for that song in the shower. It’s sort of an iterative process and I feel like that helps me be in the moment with it but also not be too precious with it where I’m like, “Oh. I have to write a song and it has to be good”. If I hum a tune and put it on voice memos and it comes back in my brain I’m like, “Ok that seems like there’s something there. That’s something that sticks in my memory and I should flesh that out”. There’s no linear way to describe it. [laughs]

Let everything happen.

Lizzie: Yeah. That was something that was a learned habit because I hated recording myself even on my phone. I was like, “Ugh, that sounds so stupid!” [laughs] But now I’m just like, “Whatever”. They’re all kinda cringe to start and then they turn into something that I like after.

Embrace the cringe!

Lizzie: Yeah!

Bailey: That’s making music, baby!

Lizzie: Every year is the year of the cringe. Just different flavours of cringe.

What helps you get out of your head when you are writing?

Bailey: For me, it’s remembering that I don’t have to use anything. I have to trick myself into being like, “You’re doing the exercise. This song can be stupid and it’s allowed to be stupid. You don’t have to show anybody this song, you don’t have to record this song, you're just writing a song. You’re using that muscle”. Sometimes there’s songs that I end up liking but I have to trick myself first into not stopping myself before the idea comes out because otherwise it won’t happen. I start with a melody a lot of the time so I’ll sing nonsensical lyrics or something that kinda fits the rhythm or melody.

Lizzie: I call it mumble-core. [laughs] I have voice memos that say some fake title and then in parentheses “mumble-core” to show that there’s some sort of vocal melody there but there’s no lyrics per se.

Bailey: A lot of times the dumbest things come out and I’m like, “Hey, you’re just practicing. It’s ok. It doesn’t have to be something”. But secretly I’m trying to make something. [laughs]

Lizzie: I think that’s the same for me. I think starting that process of recording literally everything has helped because now it’s like, “Wow, I have so much random shit on here. These are all song ideas and some are better than others”. I know there’s one on here that’s just like me singing in the bathroom making up some dumb line like, “People are bad at what they do”. I think I was singing that because I was frustrated at work for some reason. [laughs] That will probably never be a song…

Bailey: Oh, I hope that’s not about me Lizzie. [laughs]

Lizzie: No, it’s not!

Bailey: I’m just fucking with you. [laughs] We met when we worked together.

Lizzie: For “Winter In The Trap” I was literally just writing out things that I was seeing in real-time. It can be super stupid like when I sing, “Powder coated fingers / laughing bright orange” which makes zero sense when you say it out loud. I was singing about a bag of Cheetos. [laughs] So power-coated fingers, you get the Cheeto dust on your fingers, the bright orange. “Wait until the dog sleeps / to pick his wounded ear”, my dog literally had a thorn in his ear from being out in the woods and I was trying to take it out but he would keep trying to bite me so I was waiting for him to sleep so he would be more calm. That song is very literally about things that were happening in the moment which at the time seemed really dumb but then I was like, “I like the melody that I was coming up with” and now it’s a song. [laughs]

Lizzie, on “Sharon” you talk about being ghosted by your therapist, and Bailey, on “Weird Mirror” you talk about disassociating and generally feeling weird. What helps you take care of your mental health?

Bailey: I go to therapy.

Lizzie: Did your therapist ghost you? [laughs]

Bailey: My therapist didn’t ghost me. Thanks, Laura. I do a lot of journaling, I go to therapy, I go on runs a lot, and I try to make space for myself to have all the weird feelings and not shove them down. I feel like bad mental health always comes from neglecting myself or not giving myself space to feel the weird.

Lizzie: I have to say a lot of the same. I don’t want to share on your behalf Bailey, but I remember getting so excited when I found out that you’d also read The Artist’s Way. I was like, “What?! Me too!” [laughs]

Bailey: That was a huge deal! It’s one of those things where I was like, “This is dumb” and all these people that I really respected had done it and I was like, “Ok, maybe I’ll try this!”

Lizzie: I’m actually wearing my cozy socks right now that I got from one of those Artist’s Way assignments. [laughs] Anyway, that is one form of self-care. I try to journal every morning just to get all the brain stuff out.

Bailey: We can stop coding it, Lizzie. It’s the pages.

Lizzie: The morning pages. Are you familiar with The Artist’s Way, Em?

I’m not.

Lizzie: It’s about trying to get more in touch with creativity. I could go on about this book. [laughs] That sort of kicked off everything I was doing songwriting-wise. I heard about it at the start of the pandemic because Rivers Cuomo was doing his Zoom pandemic livestream and someone asked him before he started playing, “What book are you reading right now?” and he talked about The Artist’s Way. I was like, “I wonder what that’s about”. Then I did it and wrote my EP.

One of the things they tell you to do is ‘morning pages’, basically journaling every day, and that just gets everything that’s in your brain out on paper so you don’t think about it anymore and it doesn’t occupy your brain. Before, my brain would be like, “Deadlines! Work! I have to do laundry! I have to take out the garbage” and all that stuff that if you got that out of your brain then you’d have more space to do creative stuff. It seems very much like common sense but the book helped me re-frame it where I was like, “Oh my god, that stuff is taking over my brain and I do need space”. It’s really about self-care and making time for yourself so you have the capacity to take on your creative endeavors.

Bailey: They have it in every thrift store, Em, if you’re interested. You can’t go to a Goodwill and not find a copy of that book. It’s been around since the 90s.

Lizzie: There’s some stuff that’s dated. I think they tell you to put together a collage from magazine clippings. I’m like, “I don’t have any magazines”.

[laughter]

One of your promo pictures for the EP I believe was taken at the Elvis Presley Bar and Grill, I believe?

Lizzie: That’s actually hilarious! Bailey wishes, no I’m kidding. [laughs]

Bailey: Excuse me, it is the Elvis Presley Bar and Grill in my garage. That’s where that is.

Lizzie: I feel like that’s probably better than the actual bar and grill.

Bailey: I’ll do pop-ups and shows and things and I keep calling it the Elvis Presley Bar and Grill. I live in a part of Northeast LA called El Sereno and there’s not really any bars here so my partner and I really wanna put it on Yelp. It will be the only bar that shows up and the rule will be if anybody finds the Yelp page and comes to the address then we’ll open up the garage and make them a drink.

Lizzie: I’m trying to look up the actual bar and grill now. Oh, it’s in Tennessee, cool.

Bailey: The actual one is 20 feet this way actually. [points offscreen] Because I’m a man going through a midlife crisis apparently. [laughs]

Lizzie: We were trying to think about where to do these photos and we were talking about going to a diner and having to try to sneak photos in a public place.

Bailey: We were describing the place we wanted like, “Divey, maybe a bar” and I was like, “Well…”

Lizzie: Then you showed us pictures and it was perfect! [laughs] Like, “Let’s go there!”

Bailey: It was silly. I commit to my things way too hard.

Lizzie: That’s what’s great about you.

Bailey: It’s like if you give me an inch, I’ll take a mile and start a bar in my garage. If anyone is in Los Angeles and they’re reading this, just DM me on Instagram and maybe I’ll open the Elvis bar for you if you’re in town.

Where does all the Elvis memorabilia come from?

Bailey: The whole reason it’s the Elvis bar is because as a little kid, I was obsessed with Elvis. I always joke that Elvis was the first dyke that I was ever introduced to so Elvis made me gay. I was so fucking obsessed with Elvis and I feel like that informs full-circle informs a lot of the music that I make now, not that it sounds like Elvis but in my mind, I’m like, “It all makes sense”.

I was really obsessed with Elvis as a kid and then it became that thing where your family and your parents’ friends find out that you’re into one thing and they’re like, “That’s what you’re getting for your birthday and for every holiday for the next ten years”. So I had a lot of Elvis memorabilia and things in boxes that I didn’t want to get rid of because I was attached to it. When we moved into this house I was like, “I have a garage. Oh my god, I know what I’m doing with all of this!” and set up a silly Elvis memorabilia-themed bar.

Lizzie: It’s incredible.

Bailey: Now it’s a full 360 and everyone’s buying me Elvis stuff again but I love it. It’s very silly.

Elvis-themed house. It doesn’t stop at the garage.

[laughter]

Bailey: My partner’s like, “What the fuck?!”

Lizzie: There are boundaries! No Elvis stuff past this point.

Bailey: No Elvis stuff past the garage.

It’d be funny to put up an “Elvis Free Zone” sign.

Bailey: Yeah, right on the front door. We don’t speak of Elvis as soon as you enter the main house. That’s how we keep the love alive.

You’ll be touring the US together in December. What are you looking forward to the most about these shows?

Lizzie: Hanging out! [laughs] It’s just fun to play shows and it’s definitely fun to do it with your friends so I just see it as a road trip. I’ll be playing with most of the band that recorded the split and that I record with, so I’m excited about that. I think you saw our drummer, Henry, at Pouzza so he’ll be joining us and my friend Sim, who plays in Kitty Kat Fan Club, he played guitar with us for Pouzza so he’ll be on this run too.

Bailey: I’m just excited to play music and hang out and see friends. I feel like I’ve been touring a bit sporadically but I haven’t really done a proper West Coast drive and done a full week in a really long time. I’m just excited to go hang out with friends along the coast and play music.

Lizzie: Teens In Trouble started really playing shows mid-last year so it’s been a while since I’ve played or toured the West Coast. I think the last time was 2012 for me. So I have no idea what’s happening out there and I’m excited to go back and see old friends.

Bailey: It’ll be my first time doing the West Coast as Desert Mambas. I’ve done it with Foxx Bodies many times but I only started playing shows less than a year ago.

Lizzie: Was your first one with me?

Bailey: Yeah, dude! That was my first show. This has been a side-project that I’ve been noodling on in my mind forever and that show in December was the first show that I played. Well technically, my first show was a long time ago and it was a horror story and then I swore I was never going to perform live ever again and I didn’t for many years. Then you pulled me out of retirement Lizzie, so thank you. [laughs]

Lizzie: I came out to LA last December for work but since I was there I was like, “Well, what if I do a solo set and talk to Bailey about putting a show together in LA?” We played with our friends Sweet Gloom. That was super fun. I’m so glad you did that.

Bailey: Me too!

Will you be playing any songs together on the tour?

Lizzie: I thought about that the other day! I was listening to the EP and I was singing along to your song. I had a vision but I’m not going to impose. [laughs]

Bailey: Alright so the answer is a solid maybe. We’re figuring it out.

Lizzie: You’re going to see it come to fruition in real time.

Bailey: All these ideas like, “Are you going to co-write a song still?” and we’re like, “Hey, that’s a good idea!”

Lizzie: Don’t challenge us because we’ll take it. [laughs] Bailey, I think we were talking about recording backing vocals when we were working on our songs and then we didn’t do it?

Bailey: Oh yeah! We’ve got our whole lives and many more tracks to go.

Lizzie: It’s a long drive from San Francisco to Portland.

Bailey: Who knows what’s going to happen in that van?

Do you have a tour playlist?

Bailey: Not yet.

Lizzie: No, we need one though. My playlists have overstayed their welcome on the last tours that I did so I’ve started looking for something new. The last tour I did, we had probably listened to Tears For Fears’ “Head Over Heels” four times.

[laughter]

Lizzie: So no one should be listening to my playlists!

Bailey: I do kinda like that song, though.

Lizzie: It’s so good! It’s one of my top favourite songs. When people were posting on Twitter what’s their top songs that they could listen to over and over again and still love, that's one of them for me. [laughs] Just from the first note I’m like, “Damn, this song’s so good!” Have you seen the music video for it? It’s ridiculous!

Bailey: I don’t think I have. Didn’t New Found Glory do the From Your Screen To Your Stereo version of that song? I feel like weirdly, that’s the one I heard first.

Lizzie: I don’t know if I could listen to it.

Bailey: I’m not saying it’s good, but young me thought it fucking ruled.

Lizzie: I feel like between the five/six of us who are going to be in the van, someone will have a good playlist.

Bailey: We’ll make a collaborative one! So we can all throw stuff on there. We’re all going to throw different versions of “Head Over Heels”.

[laughter]

Lizzie: All two of them!

Bailey: There might be more.

Lizzie: There’s probably more.

Bailey: We’ll time them so they get progressively worse.

That could be the song you play together.

Lizzie: I can play “Everybody Wants to Rule The World”. I covered that song.

Bailey: How do you know so many Tears For Fears songs? [laughs]

Lizzie: [laughs] Back at the beginning of the pandemic when everybody was doing an Instagram livestream, I played that song acoustically. I love Tears For Fears!

What’s one band or artist, that’s not Tears For Fears, that you’re going to add to the collaborative playlist?

Bailey: I’ll probably add Shannon and the Clams. They’re my favourite band. They’re the best band of all time.

Lizzie: They’re really great. I love Shannon and the Clams too.

Bailey: They’re going on the playlist, baby!

Lizzie: I’ve been really into Caroline Rose for the last two or three years. They just came out with a new album which I still haven’t fully listened to so I feel like I have to give that a listen and put my favourite song from there on the playlist. I always end up putting Caroline Rose songs on playlists.

Bailey: I need to keep up with Caroline Rose more.

Lizzie: Definitely my playlists the last few tours have been dominated by the Osees. It’s just a vibe. I like listening to the Osees when I’m driving, it keeps me energized and sometimes a little anxious. [laughs]

Who doesn’t drive better with a little anxiety?

Lizzie: Definitely not during parking. I can’t listen to stuff like that when I’m parking.

How do you keep your friendship strong?

Lizzie: Damn, this is deep. I think it’s interesting too because since we also worked together Bailey has seen when I’m in business mode.

Bailey: Everybody knows we’re doing stuff together, especially now, but it is so funny to be texting each other giddy and normal and then to be on these calls and you’ll be like, [imitating Lizzie] “Bailey, I need this record art by this date”.

Lizzie: I don’t sound like that! [laughs]

Bailey: No you don’t. [laughs]

Lizzie: We were joking, I think we were in the middle of some work thing and I was talking to you about actual work and you were like, “This is not the work chat, Lizzie. This is where fun things are discussed”.

Bailey: What I feel from your friendship, and hopefully you feel the same, is that we’re big supporters of each other and it always feels safe to share stuff with you. I feel like that’s been a way we’ve kept our friendship strong is by being safe people for each other to share vulnerable creative things with. I feel like we’ve worked at that and grown that and really nourished that especially having a long-distance friendship too and keeping in touch that way.

Lizzie: I’m glad you’re a morning person because I’ll get excited about something and send you something and be like, “Sorry! It’s six your time right?”

Bailey: And I’m like, “I’m up!”

[laughter]

Lizzie: That’s true. I feel like it’s a development over time. I think starting with the songwriting workshop maybe helped too because I feel like that opens up a lot of vulnerability but in a safe space. It’s cool getting to know you and your art through that. I think for some of the EP stuff that you released, I heard the very, very early versions of that.

Bailey: Yeah, you did.

Lizzie: I get excited by people making art, especially if it’s art that I like. I’m a big fan of Bailey’s stuff. What’s your sign?

Bailey: I’m a Taurus.

Lizzie: Oh, interesting.

Bailey: That’s why I’m in a cozy sweater and my socks at 4pm.

Lizzie: I’m like, “I’m an Aries-Pisces cusp. Does that mean we’re compatible?” [laughs] We just like to joke around and it’s not all business all the time. I think we’re just on the same page about stuff we like doing and want to do.

Bailey: I think we occupy a similar role in bands and in projects that we’re in where we’re like, “Ok you said it, now I’m gonna go do it!” I think we’re really compatible in that way. Even though you make me feel like I’m slow at things and I’m always the fastest person. You’re next-level crazy.

Lizzie: Yeah, sorry. [laughs]

Bailey: No, I love it! I feel like we push each other in a healthy way to get things done and I think we fill in gaps for each other. Especially on this project, it’s been cool to be like, “I’ve got this thing because I’m really good at this!” and “Cool! I’ve got this thing because I’m really good at this!” It’s been really fun.

Lizzie: Like yin and yang.

Bailey: Yeah! It’s a bummer to work with people where you’re like, “You got this?” and they didn’t or it’s bad. It’s been really cool that our strong suits are complementary to one another. This is the easiest tour and things that I’ve ever put out because I’ve never really had help like this. It’s been really cool.

Lizzie: Maybe the work dynamic that we have is helpful because you haven’t seen the worst side of me but you’ve seen intense sides of me. [laughs]

Bailey: That was the business voice that I did. You intimidated me! When I first met you I was like, “Oh man, I don’t want Lizzie to not like me because this record’s late or something” and then I remember you were side-chatting me like, “You’re in a band?” and I was like, “Oh, I think Lizzie likes me actually!” [laughs]

Lizzie: I think we were following each other on Instagram and you posted about Foxx Bodies. I was like, “Wait, tell me more about what’s going on here”. [laughs] I feel like I can be more like myself around you where you’re not going to be like, “Oh my god, she’s so mean”.

[laughter]

Bailey: No, I know all sides of you and they’re all held and special.

What does the future hold for Teens In Trouble and Desert Mambas?

Lizzie: Hmmm, secrets. [laughs] I already alluded to the full-length and I’ve been sharing some of that process on Instagram and it’s going to come out soon! So that’s coming out not too long after the split. I’m trying to write songs on the side as that’s happening to keep in the practice as we’ve been talking about and not have that process be too unfamiliar. I literally just recorded a voice memo yesterday and am sure it’s 1000% stupid but I did it! I put in the work. [laughs] I definitely want to keep writing stuff so I’m sure I’ll be working on something else after the first full-length.

Bailey: I have a bunch of new songs recorded that I’m working on so there’ll definitely be another EP next year. Some more touring and some fun silly covers that I’ve worked on.

Lizzie: Ooh, yeah! I’m excited about that! [laughs]

Bailey: That’s all I’ll say about that. If you’re a fan of The L Word, I might have something for you.