Interviews: Frank Zummo of Sum 41 talks his new documentary and the end of the band

Heavy hitting Sum 41’s Frank Zummo is emotions-deep in the band’s final tour, coasting off of the release of the “Heaven :x: Hell” double album last March. Punknews’s Mike Elfers spoke with the drummer about the car he abandoned in the desert to get to where he is today, celebrating the success of the Canadian punk

Frank? Hey Frank, how are you? Good man, how are you?

Oh, I'm great. This is Mike in Nebraska with Punknews. Oh, nice. I'm on a day off on tour. We're in Eugene, Oregon.

Cool. I wasn't sure if you were still on the road or not. I saw you guys in Omaha. I think that was your tour kickoff… in the States, anyways? Yeah, that was the kickoff of the first leg of America. Now, we're in the second and final leg of America that kicked off in San Francisco the past few nights. So we've just begun this next leg.

Great. I'm personally a big fan of ending things on top. I like when a television program cancels a show and ends with a big production, if that makes sense. So I was a huge fan of the show and the tour and the album. I think it's just a hell of a way to go out. There's a lot of punk bands that I grew up watching that missed that opportunity and started playing much smaller shows 10 years later than maybe they should have, but that's just me. Agreed. I definitely agree with that. Let's go out on top and go big and end on a really, really good note and celebrate almost 30 years of this band. So I definitely agree with you in so many ways on that, and that's kind of where we're all coming from as well.

So I guess to start, I wanted to kind of get a summary from you about the documentary from 805, “Rise Up with Frank Zummo,” and just kind of hear it with your own words. Yeah. I mean, we literally just had a call today and we all haven't really talked since it came out, the 805 team and myself. What's really great about that is it organically came out the way that it came out. We all just kind of had this idea to shoot some kind of performance piece and maybe do an interview. It was very loose, and they said, “Where do you want to go record this?” I said, “I would love to go to Dave Grohl's studio.” I've recorded there a bunch. I love that room. It's just such a great room to shoot in as well, as we wanted to get amazing audio, but also visual. I go back with the 805 team because a lot of them used to be with the Guitar Center Music Store back in the day, and I did a lot of work with them. We go way back, the film crew. So it was like a very natural kind of relationship when my dear friend started working for 805, who comes from the Guitar Center world and we've done so many things together. He had said, “Hey man, with 805, we want to start showcasing artists and kind of telling their story,” and that was cool to me because normally you don't see that in alcohol companies. It wasn't about alcohol and party life and the things you would just think about when you think of alcohol. I started looking at everything they were doing with the different athletes, surfers, and it was all done so well, just like telling their story. So we kind of set up my drum set. I played Sum 41 songs, I played some of my solo music, and after that, they brought in that really cool lighting and kind of made a production element. So it was like, you're in this great recording studio, but then they brought in some really cool production stuff, which was inspiring as well when there's cameras on you and whatnot. And then we just kind of went into the control room in front of that legendary new console that Dave Grohl bought from Sound City… There's been a documentary made about it that Dave did. I mean, the records that have been made on that console, it's just so inspiring. I sat in the room and we just started talking, me and the 805 team, the film crew, and that's kind of what came out. I think because even they didn't know a lot of my story, and I just kind of started talking about my journey, getting to where I'm at now. Everybody left there really inspired, and it kind of turned into this docu-piece, which is just really cool. I love being a part of stuff that just happens organically. It wasn't this whole master plan of how it was going to go, we kind of just went in there and freestyled it, and this is a piece that showcases my drumming, talking about just my life and my journey to get, like I said, where I am today. It's a lot of stuff that really hasn't been talked about in one piece. Some of that stuff's been talked about in interviews, but not just in one place. So I'm really, really happy the way it came out in every way, and it's just great to be working with a company that I'm so aligned with on just art and music and all that.

Cool. Yeah. I enjoyed watching it. As much as I am usually prepared for, you know, “I was born with a drumstick in my hand.” Most people tell cute little stories like that. I was a little more eager to hear about the grind. I didn't know that you had fought so tooth and nail to get to where you are, and again, as a longtime Sum 41 fan… shit, me and Deryck are almost the exact same age. So, you know, I knew of the band long enough to remember them scraping and grinding and playing shit venues and doing what they could to get by. So to kind of celebrate that with the farewell tour in Omaha was significantly awesome. What I've learned over the years, and I'm sure you and everyone would agree with me, whether it's, you know, filling your car with diesel on accident and having to hawk whatever to get on a U-Haul and keep going on your journey to make music your career. You start to celebrate some of these mistakes and shortcomings and failures that you had as they become a bigger part of the story of where you got to where you are. I was just curious if you could elaborate a little bit more on that, and just how you feel about those personal connections, that conversation you had with the U-Haul people, for example, was probably fucking gnarly. Yeah, it was, you know, I think I've just known from such an early age that this is what I want to do, and I was going to make sure that was going to happen no matter what obstacles were in the way, because this is just my love, my passion, my everything. There've been so many roadblocks and challenges in the way, which is why I appreciate where I'm at now even more because of what I had to do to get here, you know, and continue to do. It's, it's just, I think I'm just programmed that way from just being so young and always wanting to do this. I came up at a time, you know, where we didn't put every moment on social media. So not everybody knew, and even more so now you just see like kind of the highlights and things, you don't really see what it takes to get to where it can go. And I feel like, you know, a lot of artists have that same roller coaster of a time to get where you want to get and get onto that path. And it just kind of… when those things happen, it was like, okay, this is bad or this isn't good right now. How do I fix this? How do I figure this out? It wasn't just like, okay, I'm done. I gotta go, this isn't working out. I have to, like “give up.” That failure part was just not part of my DNA and programming. So it was just like whatever I could do to rise up. And especially me going to L.A. was a big thing. I had always wanted to be in L.A. You know, everything I loved about art and music was in L.A. I started going to L.A. and I just felt the connection there. When I got an opportunity to go there, I was like, I had watched so many of my friends go out there, get discouraged, come home, and then be miserable. So I'm like, I don't want to become like everybody else, I just, I had too much pride. I had too much at stake. I went out there and boom, you know, driving there was the hardest thing already, and then my car dies and I have to deal with all this stuff. I'm in L.A. without a car for weeks, in which you have to have a vehicle. You know, I'm showing up with a giant U-Haul truck to like little venues to do showcases and things with the band that I was supposed to be in. Then that band was completely supposed to happen overnight and it didn't. And just like, OK, what are we going to do here? Rebuild, you know, focus on other stuff, go on every audition, whatever it may be, and I'm still living that every day because I am so grateful to be where I'm at. I don't ever want to not be in this place. You know, and I think it's what I love about this. I do a lot of workshops for kids like School of Rock and all that. I just did one this past weekend. I've got one coming up in Pittsburgh on this current tour, and that's what I tell the kids. I talk about this at my workshops because it's just part of being an artist, being in the music business. You know, I'm just like letting these kids know that I'm a total example of how you set your goals and you just make sure that it happens. Stay on that path and you could make that happen. I'm good with it. I'm no different than any of these kids that are coming up. I just stayed on this course and this plan. So a lot of that story you see in there is kind of what I talk about to these kids because I want to highlight it and show how, you know, failure and things do happen, but you've got to fight through it. You've got to rise up and all that. So it's just really cool to have that highlighted in this video.

Absolutely. Yeah. Great answer. Now I'm going to preface this. I live in Lincoln, Nebraska. Tommy Lee did a reality show in my town where he went to our college, and so this is like, six blocks away from my brother's bar that I'm at every day. So I will think about that silly show every time I think of him for the rest of my life now, which is hilarious, but I wanted to kind of touch on him being, obviously, the first drummer you saw perform live or one of the first drummers you saw perform live into, you know, an idol of sorts, into a friend and a colleague. I just wanted to talk about the imposter syndrome that typically goes along with a relationship like that, where you suddenly see yourself amongst your heroes on the same stage. Yeah, I mean, it was definitely like I've said, my first concert was Motley Crue and Ozzy at five years old, and seeing Tommy Lee up there in that arena, it just connected with me so powerfully that I knew at that moment that's what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Fast forward to not long after, I saw Buddy Rich with his big band at Hofstra University in Long Island, New York. You know, you talk about two drummers that were like, almost frontmen behind their drum set. I think that's a lot of how I, you know, that was kind of my first introduction to drums besides hearing them on recordings and whatnot. I mean, that just had such an effect on me, making it to a show back then, and then really making everybody in the back of the arena, just like me as a five-year-old, feel that. Like I felt Tommy Lee at the nosebleed seats at five years old, and then you go see Buddy Rich. Then, you mentioned family members, would have been my grandfather because he ran a theater in Long Island, and to see how he did it all, he produced the shows, directed the shows, did the, you know, set design and the soundtracks and whatnot. He talked me at a young age into working there and acting in plays and stage managing. I really looked up to him because of just seeing the many hats that he wore and how passionate he was and how successful it was because of how he was, you know. So those are the first three things that come to mind for sure. And yeah, I mean, to be on the other side now, like playing these arenas, I wouldn't call it imposter syndrome, but I definitely take a moment in the show to reflect. I literally look up in the seats at where I used to sit when I was that young and acknowledge how grateful I am to be on this other side now. I always just like, just take a moment in the show because… I'm an arena kid, like I saw so many shows in an arena, and it was the biggest thing ever, just with the big production and how it sounded, and now to be on the other side, it's so incredible. I still get that feeling like a five year old kid, you know, when I walk into these arenas every day, it's pretty powerful.

Terrific. Thank you. Okay, you had mentioned in the documentary, I was really glad that you worded it this way, actually, within your role in Sum 41 there was kind of a rebuilding or reconstruction of a band that had been around for a long time, that was essentially starting completely over with new members and ideas. I, as a longtime fan of the band, you know, I watched Steve-O learn how to drum throughout their previous recording discography. I remember the first time I said, “Oh, he's playing to a click now. Oh, he's getting so much better at double-kick than he was on the record before that.” It was a fun thing to follow along with. Obviously, you got to jump into a band that had a pretty fucking fun discography placed for you already, but I wanted to talk about your efforts to write and become a new member of the band while still paying homage to the sound that Steve-O was kind of a part of… because I hear that in even your newest songs… There's this flavor of Sum 41 drumming that has remained true and never skipped a beat even with your joining the band. Yeah, I mean, I think that all comes from Deryck being the main songwriter. When he sends demos to the band, they sound like full produced album quality demos, I mean, the demos are very, very well done. He's got the program, you know, placeholder drums in there, but he's kind of writing a lot of that, because it has to go with the vocals and the different things musically that are happening in the song. It's really cool, because a lot of it in the beginning, when I got in the studio, and we were working on the first record… it's stuff that a drummer, some little things I noticed, I was like, a drummer, generally wouldn't do that. Because he's coming as a songwriter, and more of a non drummer, so it was really interesting. It's like, this has to be there, because of his vocals or whatever. So I think the drums still sound that way, because it's coming originally from Deryck, and then Steve would put his, you know, flavor on it, just like I put my flavor on it. It’s kind of the way it is, like, we'll get the demos set, and everyone does their homework. Then we'll come back, and when we get in the room together… and “Hey, I have this idea, let's try this part.” You know, and that's where the songs take on the individual members and whatnot. So I think that's why that sounds reminiscent of that, but Steve and I are completely different drummers. When I came in, I was just playing, paying respect to the way that these songs are recorded on the albums. Obviously, it's me and who I am, it's just going to come out in my way that I am. When I got into the band, we started recording the 13 Voices record… Deryck and I were working on demos and stuff together in the studio, working on drum production, even recording in his home studio, right away, and I was pretty much thrown into it pretty quickly, and yes even before I was in the band, that's before Deryck went down, we were just jamming, and there really wasn't Sum 41 at that point. I don't think they were all talking, Dave hadn’t been in the band for years, Steve quit, you know, it was in a weird place and then Deryck went down, you know, and had his whole thing. When he was well enough to start playing again, we started jamming again for fun… and then it got more serious, you know, and the guys came out, and we spent a week together, and then they asked me to be in the band. But when we started up again, it was like, we had to rebuild everything, pretty much as a new band, you know, we went out on like, basically a club tour in the UK. The response and support was really amazing, and to be in the band just about a decade now, to see how far it's come because of the work that we've put in, it works so well. That's why it's so bittersweet right now. It's great to be ending on top and having so much fun, but it's also like, there's just something so special that the five of us have together and how hard we've worked together. It's a real bittersweet battle for sure, you know, with just emotions of what's kind of going on right now.

Nice. I wanted to talk, I'm going to try to word this without sounding too grim, but we live in a world now where the idea of a “rock and roll drummer;” methodically writing drum parts, playing them in a studio, you know, the whole song without punching in, and triggers, and all the tricks and bullshit… is becoming extremely rare. So one of the things I really enjoy about your role in Sum 41 is your drum parts, your writing, your kit, the way you travel around your kit, and of course, you know, seeing it all live in Omaha earlier last year confirms the fact that, you are a rock and roll drummer, and you're one of those rare breeds. I mean, first off, thank you very much. You know, you're right, we are obviously in the AI and computer age, and there's a lot of rock stuff I'm hearing and metal stuff… and it's not being played by a human. That bums me out because there are so many incredible drummers. Yes, we have technology that can do that now, and the stuff that’s on the radio… Most people don't know, but I know. It's an art, especially recording in the studio and just making it how you perceive it, you want to feel the way that it feels like live. When I go in and record in the studio, I go like I'm playing a show. I started releasing videos of a lot of the songs and tracking them just with my raw, terrible, GoPro audio, because I wanted you to just hear what it sounds like, what it felt like in the room. I go in there with Deryck and it's like we just did three gigs and I'm playing like it's a show. I want that energy to be recorded, and obviously in the studio, everything's under a microscope. So I want everything to be well translated and every little thing to come through, because… especially when you've got hundreds of guitar tracks being put in and all these frequencies, you want the drums to be well pronounced. Our co-producer, Mike Green, really worked hard with me on the recording of our newest record with the dynamics… to be certain, every kick note, every snare note, was hit just the way that we wanted it to come out and be heard, we really worked hard on it. I'm just so happy with the way that this record came out in every way, but obviously the drums most. I'm really proud of it because we did a lot of pre-production, and I literally locked myself in Mike Green's studio and worked by myself as well. It's the most work I've ever put in on a record, and it was great because it was during COVID and we didn't have a deadline. Nobody knew we were making a record. It's also the longest I've ever recorded drums in the studio, it's the longest pre-production, the most I've worked on my own, and I almost, like, went mental, just to remember two albums worth of music. It's a lot of music, there were a lot of parts. There was a lot of stuff that was complicated and complex that took me a second to learn and that I wanted to execute with precision, so I put a lot of pressure on myself, and side note… We recorded the record in Las Vegas, we had a great session. I thought I was done. I was super proud, went home and we just did not sonically… It had nothing to do with the drum performances, the takes, anything. It was just the room. We didn't get the sound. We're spoiled. You know, we recorded at EastWest Studios in Hollywood on every other record in that drum room. You can't beat it, and it didn't beat that room. So we actually had to go back in and redo everything. Through the course of that time, Deryck wrote even more songs, so I went back to L.A., did more pre-production, you know, and then we went and did drums for like a long week marathon, which was great. It was just me, Deryck and our co-producer in the studio. I was tuning the drums. I was changing the heads. It was just us, you know, which was really cool. So, yeah, I'm really proud of it, and I know there's just so many great studio drummers and rock drummers, and hopefully it doesn't become a trend like what you're talking about, because, yeah, technology can do that. It's expensive to record drums the right way. You can have a home studio, but the amount of microphones and things you need to make it sound great, or a bunch of it gets sound replaced anyway, and it just sounds like a machine. So I try to keep the purpose, but, you know, it's definitely an art and hopefully it stays that way.

Well, yeah, no, I agree. And while you said most people don't notice, most people don't notice the sound replacing and the triggers, but I feel like somehow, some way people do notice. And I think your showmanship can mirror, as you said, someone like Tommy Lee being a front man behind the kit. You're showcasing your drum parts to the song on the stage and the record. And, you know, I feel like I'm sucking your dick right now, but you get what I'm saying. *laughter* Yeah, totally, and thank you… *laughter* I mean, it's just, I've been lucky to work with a lot of great people, live and studio are two completely different things, and I've been lucky to do a lot of studio work. I work with a lot of producers. I was Howard Benson's studio drummer for a while. I was doing Kelly Clarkson records and all kinds of stuff and, you know, those are big records and you have to come in and nail it. Otherwise, you know, time is money in those situations, and I learned a lot. I got thrown in the hot seat by Howard because he believed in me, and I got my first gold records and platinum records by playing on these albums that Howard threw me on. I've just, I've always been in the studio world, as well as live, and I just know how to hit the drums thankfully the way that they need to be recorded and done the right way. It's an art in itself, it really is. So I'm just lucky that I've just had such great teachers and learned such great technique to be able to do that, and the fact that it's translated to your ears in that way… that's what it's all about. So thank you for that.

Of course. Thank you. So I guess in closing, you're finishing up in 2025, you know, Sum 41's calling it quits. So do you have any other ideas in the horizon or things that you're working on that you'd like people to know about? Yeah, I mean, obviously I'm always doing workshops, DJ gigs, solo shows. I launched a musical group called Gravas last year. We've done two festivals. We actually recorded an EP at Grohl’s Studio… that music's going to start coming out soon. But to be completely honest, we're so busy in Sum 41 with dates until the end of January, and I'm just so in the moment right now because it's rapidly coming to an end. I just want to enjoy every bit of it because of the hard work that it’s taken to get here and just be in the moment. The future, just like always, just something will work out like it always does. I don't want to have that clouding what's going on here. Things always work out in the end and I'll figure it out there, but I mean, the only thing I will say is like, I'm not anywhere close to being done. I feel like I'm just getting going. I'm more fired up than ever, and now that things are at this level, I want to continue them at this level. But, you know, it's scary and exciting at the same time.

Well put. Now I'm going to throw in my hat and just say, I don't know if you ever listened to Dave's Brown Brigade record, but that was something that I couldn't get enough of, except for the drums. The drums weren't very great. So if you're bored for a weekend, five years from now, and Dave wants to put out more Brown Brigade music, then I don't think I'm alone in asking that you be a part of it. Yeah, we've got something special together. Just how locked I think we are. It's pretty crazy. It really is. I don't think I've ever had that with a lead guitar player in my career. It's pretty wild.

You know, it is super geeky, but I knew it was your first show of the tour when I saw you in Omaha. So I was doing more than just listening to the songs you were performing. I was looking at the way you guys were looking at each other and saying, like, “Alright, so how quickly can these assholes pull this whole production together?” and yeah, I could absolutely see the relationship is incredible between you guys. Even for those in the audience that aren't gigantic musician dweebs, they felt that same love and that same connection and I think that is what's making this farewell tour and the double album so special. So yeah, that's all I had for you. I really appreciate you giving me the time. Of course, definitely. I'm excited to see this when it comes out. We all, you know, follow and love Punknews. So it's super cool of you for being into this piece, highlighting the documentary and having a chat.